Science versus Faith

Tuesday, October 03, 2006
A while back I commented how dangerous it is that George Bush does not have a science advisor. In fact, he is the first President in years not to have a science advisor. It is clear from what I have read about the President, he disregards science and he has a general distrust of science. Maybe he thinks all scientists are liberal Democrats or maybe it’s something else.

When a leader stubbornly ignores something as important as science he does not represent the entire Country. The President of the United States is supposed to represent everybody but if he ignores an important group in our society (scientists) then he lacks important information needed to form an opinion. This “ignorance is bliss” attitude is dangerous.

The President admits he does not even read newspapers or magazines but instead gets his news from a few advisors that interpret the news and present it to him. Again, the President is supposed to represent all people not just a selected few. It is impossible to do this when you get your facts from a “filtered” source rather than from the actual source. Clearly the President has blind faith in his advisors. With this brief essay I want to open up the debate of science versus Faith.

First of all, let’s look at what comprises solid evidence. It doesn’t matter whether a scientist is liberal or conservative, so I don’t even want to go there. It only matters what evidence they collect through experiments to prove their hypothesis. Without getting too technical, evidence is comprised of proven documented experiments capable of producing similar outcomes if conducted by someone else, PERIOD. More importantly, what is NOT considered good evidence are eyewitness accounts and common sense.

Common sense tells us that the earth is flat, that the Sun truly rises and sets, that the surface of the Earth is not spinning at over 1000 miles per hour, that bowling balls fall faster than marbles, that particles don't curve around corners like waves around a floating dock, that the continents don't move, and that objects heavier-than-air can't have sustained flight unless they can flap wings. However, science has been used to demonstrate that all these common sense ideas are wrong.

Science has radically changed our criminal justice system for the better but we still rely on eyewitness accounts when we should not. We now know how bad eyewitness accounts are because of the DNA evidence that constantly proves them wrong. It has been well documented that people have trouble translating what they see and often fill in important details with inaccuracies. Therefore, eyewitness accounts should no longer be allowed in the court room. Only forensic analysis should be allowed into a court room as accurate testimony.

Though science cannot establish absolute truth, it can provide overwhelming evidence in favor of certain ideas. I am not a believer in absolute truth anyway. As soon as you subscribe to absolute truth, you close your mind to other possibilities; this is dangerous. Critical thinking is essential for science to function properly but absolute truths prohibit critical thinking. An important outcome of science is applying what you have learned and building on it through critical evaluations or through other supporting experiments. Absolute truths are an inhibitor in this process.

Faith based systems openly accept absolute truths and common sense ideology. They produce little or no evidence to back a hypothesis and only function properly if you are a “believer”. Critical evaluations are often met with hostility. Faith based systems often label critical evaluations as either too liberal or too conservative and focus on the individual conducting the experiments rather than the evidence collected.

I am not saying that faith based systems are a bad thing because they have their place; religion plays an important role in my life. But Faith and science should be two separate categories and should only be combined when the physical evidence or experimental outcomes support it. When there is no physical evidence or no experiments can support a hypothesis, then you do not have science. If you choose to still believe then you have faith. But again, these are two separate entities and everyone should realize this.

This President blurs the line between Faith and science often giving Faith precedence over all; this is the most dangerous thing of all for a leader. Al Qaeda does this same thing but they use a different Faith based system. I cannot understand how the leader of the free world can completely disregard science when it is such an important part of our society and educational system. But it seems like learning and education have never been this President’s strength.

When I hear phrases like “staying the course no matter what” coming from an individual that never gets his information from real sources, I get very nervous. I would prefer an individual that collects his own information and develops opinions and ideas from his own research. Part of the learning process is applying new information to situations and adapting accordingly. This learning process is the primary thing that separates us from animals.

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12 Comments:

Blogger hsdajr said...

Some witness-related testimonies should be admissible, such as in rape cases, although evidence should be available in such a case as well. Science is a good start, but unfortunately, scientists can be biased as well, as a number of stories in the last couple of years indicate (doctors and researchers paid by drug companies to promote their drugs or treatments even before or despite evidence to the contrary of the medicine's or treatment's efficacy). There have also been a few cases of forensic labs deliberately altering results due to the the racism of the person doing the tests. Overall, though, I do agree with you. Eliminating much of the flawed and biased testimonies will help. But there was an article just this week (or last) about judges who are about to preside over lawsuits with Big Business defendants who have contributed to the judge's re-election funds, and the judges haven't disqualified themselves... makes it a bit more difficult for Court of Law to become a Court of Justice, now doesn't it?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/01/us/01judges.html?ex=1317355200&en=0e956de8a57479c2&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

You indicate that religion has it's place, and it's important in your life. My observation as a long-time friend is that you are interchanging religion and Spirituality. I wouldn't call you religious, but you are concerned about spiritual matters. Since you are concerned with everyone as a whole, that is usually more indicative of Spirituality, which is All-Inclusive and Unifying, whereas in many (but not all) religions, there is an "Us or Them" mentality which plays favorites and is Divisive.

Here is an interesting link below, which I had sent to our friends years ago. This guy found a signature brain wave in everyone's brain that only fires when it recognizes something. Imagine being trained in the CIA or through some other mechanism, to be able to beat the polygraph only to have your brain give you away when a piece of evidence is shown to you... it's an involuntary response of the brain's Associative Pattern Recognition System which cannot be controlled... and this "Brain Fingerprinting" has been 100% successful against FBI and trained CIA operatives.

So WHY isn't this being used in the Court Systems!? Especially since at least once (that I recall - I haven't gone and looked for the link yet) it was ruled admissable as evidence?

http://www.brainwavescience.com/

As far as our leaders go, until a few years ago, I was working under the incorrect assumption that the leaders we chose were somehow smarter and wiser than average person. But really, I believe now that they are simply more power-hungry and greedy than most, after all, if they really cared about the American people, and had actual Integrity, they would be on the same Social Security system as the general populace, they'd all have term limits, and each bill they discuss would not include pork and other riders on it, that have nothing to do with the main topic in question.

I think Humanity as a whole needs to take a leap upward in consciousness and integrity before the "injustices" in the world will be attended to. But looking to the government of any nation to solve the most basic of human problems will never work. We'll have to take care of it ourselves, person by person, one at a time.

11:24 AM  
Blogger DarthImmortal said...

Andy,
Well said as usual. The only contradiction I would like to reiterate is the eye witness accounts for rape cases. Again, we should use DNA and not an eyewitness account. A rape is a very traumatic experience and it is very easy to finger an innocent man. In a rape there should be plenty of DNA and other evidence to collect.

You probably correct about me in terms of religion and spirituality. I put more weight behind ideals rather than specific Bible quotes and such. I also give more weight to scientific data than Faith, as I believe the science is results based and not belief based (the way it should be).

Also, being a paranormal investigator I separate my beliefs from the science of the situation. If I see something it does not mean shit unless I get a picture or some kind of other scientific data to support my eyes. It is very possible to get it wrong when you are in a stressful, dark, creepy environment.

I hope you make it to dinner tonight.

11:37 AM  
Blogger Law Fairy said...

You make some very good points, and Lord knows (no pun intended) I don't like the president any more than you do, but I think you paint with too broad a brush here.

For one thing, I have to disagree with your definition of "common sense" -- "common sense" doesn't exist in a vacuum, and it's not frozen in a pre-industrial era, or anything similar. Given the social and scientific context in which we live, it is no longer common sense to think the earth is flat. Five hundred years ago it may have been, but it is not today.

And I don't think it's fair of you to say on the one hand that you don't believe in Absolute Truth, and on the other to posit that non-scientifically-based faith has no place in actual real-world decision-making. I agree with you that faith can make people closed-minded, but reliance on empirical data to the exclusion of all else can have the same effect. Philosophically speaking, on a very basic level you can't prove anything at all -- so at some fundamental level science is really no better than faith.

Now, granted, this is not a realistic way to live your life -- but I think it's important to remember that we do need to take a step back from what science seems to tell us and recognize that even the very best, most accurate measuring tools are simply tools made by non-omniscient, clumsy, biased human hands. Science can teach us to build spaceships and buildings and bombs, but it can't teach us to build societies.

If science and religion have separate domains, that's all well and good -- but isn't possible, then, for science to encroach on religion's territory? That is to say, if religion should not tell us whether we evolved from monkeys or were divinely created in six days, then doesn't it follow that science should not tell us whether it is "right" or "wrong" to use an embryo for scientific research?

I'm not positing any particular answer to these questions; I'm just pointing out that while it's appropriate and important to consider empirical evidence, it's equally important to recognize that empirical evidence does not tell the whole story.

5:49 PM  
Blogger DarthImmortal said...

Lawfairy,

The common sense part was taken from an actual science text book, something that I read while finishing up my undergraduate. Don’t be fooled by the terminology. I remember discussing this with my professor with the same point as you made here and he told me the point the author was trying to make was to keep common sense within the context of the era of humanity we are talking about. For example, although today it is not common sense to believe the Earth is flat at one time it was and only though science where we able to prove this wrong. So I think the common sense theory holds up very well in this debate.

I also never said that that “non-scientifically-based faith has no place in actual real-world decision-making”; I only said that it is important to keep faith based systems in context and not to blur them with science and vise versa. For example, if your religion believes the Earth is flat and you have no evidence to back up that hypothesis, it doesn’t mean that your religion is correct. Now you can have Faith and believe in your religion but that is not truth just because you believe it.

I also went on to say that Faith is very important and should only be combined with science when the evidence or outcome of the experiments supports it. So if you want to scientifically prove your religion is correct and the Earth is flat, you have to do so with an experiment that is accepted by scientific community. Well if the scientific community discovers the Earth is round and provides pictures from space to prove this, you can still hold onto your faith based system and believe the scientists are full of shit, but do not consider your beliefs actually science – they are faith. The problem is people will often blur Faith as science (and vise versa) when the two completely different ideologies should not be combined. I hope this all makes sense because I do not know how else to explain it.

You are very correct when you state that religion is an important part in building and sustaining a society, but so is science. BOTH should be used and BOTH should be kept within their proper context. More importantly, it is dangerous to disregard either one, especially if you are the leader of the free world.

Thanks for your comment, it was awesome. You provided much more depth into the discussion.

6:19 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Darth,

I like the point that you're trying to make here, except that there's a really fundamental problem with trying to be a scientist and a devoutly religious person. That fundamental problem is that unless you are predisposed to adapting your religion in the face of new and provable (yes, there are definitively provable things in science) evidence, you will always and forever be at odds with your religion.

That's the key to having faith in something like a god or spirituality and balancing it with having a scientific mind. For me, scientific evidence that is sufficiently evaluated and tested by many individuals (thereby eliminating the incidence of biasness) will always take precedence over knowledge that comes from spirituality or religion because (good) science provides direct proof for things based on logic, which I believe is a far more valuable tool for searching for reality than feelings or emotions or fanciful epiphanies. This world holds a billion billion trillion gozillion mysteries. Some of those can be solved with science and some cannot. That's where the line should be drawn. Of course, the realm of the provable is so unclear to us now in our time that the only way to distinguish between it and the realm of the improvable is keeping an open and objective mind about that which we know nothing about.

If you know anything about modern Buddhist philosophy, then I think you'll find a lot of parallels between what I'm saying here and Buddhism. Hence why Buddhism is so appealing to those of us who have a deep and profound belief in science.

1:50 PM  
Blogger Tina Dray said...

hi there Dr John sent me!

4:23 AM  
Blogger Janets Planet said...

Just playing 6 degrees of Dr. John.

4:46 AM  
Blogger Catch said...

I never ague religion and politics, but you are right, George should be more informed....does it suprise you that he isnt?????? I am one of Dr Johns enchanted fairys.

5:31 AM  
Blogger Bazza said...

Phew, interesting post, for me science is a proven fact, faith is a believed fact, big difference. I believe Bush is a tosser, I'm not sure what science would make of him. Dr John sent me.

6:30 AM  
Blogger Lori's Minute said...

You raise an interesting point. I think the presidenr is plain old stubborn. I guess I had not thought of the science aspect except when he talked about stem cell reserach.

Sent by Dr. John, a guy who has too much time on his hands and thinks the rest of us do, too (just kidding...we love going to his link picks!).

7:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You seem to have found a nice balance between science and faith. So many struggle with that. As a person of faith, but also one raised in a science-based atmosphere, I can count myself in that number. I've always felt that, yes, we are to have faith, but God also created us with intelligence and he expects us to use it.

8:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dang. Forgot to mention that Dr. John sent me.

8:03 AM  

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